Oh, could you please talk about how to deal with (and what to do with) a child who takes shortcuts… not wanting to do the work (mostly school, but also other tasks), a child (age 11) who works very hard at not working. Guessing at answers, pretending to read, failing to do corrections because she “did not think you would recheck it”… which I always have.
A child who fills in an answer that says “ten”… ten what?? Ten minutes, ten weeks, ten years? And when asks, replies, “You should have just known.” I am asking for a miracle I know… my child is not the norm (ask Cheryl) as she came to me later and has trouble connecting. Still, her education is in my hands and I am baffled. I have a younger child also, who is watching this and starting to copy some attitudes. He is seven and needs more training time, which is being stolen by bad behaviors in his sibling. How do I fix this?
~Bren
Oh, Bren, I could not help but chuckle at some of the things you shared. I know it's not right, but it's always funnier when it's someone else's child, no? I'm sure you're past seeing any humor in the situation and are just plain frustrated.
I can only share with you what we've done with a similar situation, but it might not be the answer you need. Pray and ask the Lord what He thinks.
We have a child who is very mature, very responsible when it comes to getting tasks done, and a complete help with siblings. I can count on this child in so many ways.
However. This child loses EVERYTHING. Crafts have been started and then lost. Yes, whole projects, GONE. School books can't be found, clothing is missing, etc. Actually, as I write this I can see that we have made some small progress, so I can say things are getting better.
Initially I was just plain frustrated. How does someone lose an entire backpack filled and ready for vacation the day we are going to leave??? It was set out that morning...
Tears have been shed, and the child is also frustrated. That being the case, I have set about helping the child with my own exhibited patience. We've cracked open the Bible and had the child copy verses about responsibility and diligence. We've also set in motion some "reality discipline" tactics: no new crafts can be started until the old ones are found and completed. Lost school books are paid for if not found by a set date.
My kids don't have a steady income (no allowance, etc.), so having to pay for a school book is agony! It's only happened once (amazing how much time they'll spend looking for it when they know they'll have to pay for it), and after the child doled out $25 and the new book arrived, the old one was found. Painful reality.
My advice to you would be to guard yourself from showing any kind of frustration. When I get worked up over a child's behavior, it only makes the situation worse. Then set up, in advance, the rules and the consequences. Sit down at breakfast when everyone is calm and happy and tell that sweet child what she's going to work on that day (diligence? a good attitude?). Tell her that each time you see her exhibiting that good quality, she'll get x (an m-n-m? a checkmark on a chart that leads to some prize when all the boxes are filled?). Or tell her that if she can go 15 minutes without being lazy or complaining, she'll get x. Or if she can do each task completely, without cutting corners, she'll get x.
Baby steps, you see? Reward every. little. accomplishment. At the end of the day, praise her to her dad and brother. Make dinner triumphant, even if she only succeeded once that day.
Don't be afraid to create some negative consequences, too. Much like having to pay for a lost school book, you could set in motion a rule that discourages half-done work. Stick to it. Don't renege. Let your yes be yes and your no be no. If you tell her the consequence of not being diligent is to not be able to participate in some fun activity, then by all means, don't let her participate.
You are on her team. Communicate that as best you can.
~Kendra
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Dear Kendra,
I have three girls, a 5.5, 2.5, and an 11-month-old. My girls are good, but I have not been consistent with the first time obedience and things are frustrating around here. I was encouraged by your remarks on teaching obedience before school stuff and we will be officially starting that soon. I went to the Godly Tomatoes site and thought that all made sense and could be done. And I spent time in the Word, studying what God has to say about discipline. It is pretty clear He expects it. So I set out to "stake them" and had a few good days where I was really able to stay ahead and those were great days. But then I am not consistent for a second, it seems, and we are back to the beginning. I am just pretty discouraged.
I know you don't know me and if I knew anyone around me that was doing this with their kids, I would be right there talking to them about it. But I don't know any families that are requiring first time, every time obedience, and I guess I am looking for a little encouragement. I wonder if you started requiring first time obedience from the beginning with your kids or if there was a time when you realized things weren't as good as they could be...do you have different expectations of a two-year-old in training (like when they get distracted with a toy, would you remind them to come if they were in the process of getting to you or would they get the swat then for not obeying?) I don't want to be a mean old dictator, but I feel like if I say it, they should do it. I know they are capable for the most part.
Alicia B in MO
Hi Alicia-
We took a popular parenting class early on in our parenting that ruined us in one aspect. The course communicated that if we just did A, B, C, and D, our children would be virtually trained and perfectly behaved by the time they hit six. *snort*
I remember having a young woman in my home after our fourth was born and I was whining to her about how much I repeat myself to the then 6, 4, and 2-year-olds. She being one of ten children wisely said, "Oh Kendra! It's precept upon precept". Yes. It is. And so we say things over and over and over during their short childhoods. Over and over.
But. We do train them to respond immediately, and not because we want to be dictators, but because God does require children to obey their parents. Period. He is wiser than we are, and we as parents are wiser than our children are. They need to trust us and obey us.
There's the complimentary part to first-time obedience: trust. If we are loving on our children, responding in kindness, patient, and joyful, they will be trained to obey us out of their trust of us. That comes with a little time and experience, though, so in the earliest years, they do need to be trained to immediately obey.
I like to set up training opportunities, and typically one of the first training sessions is when we teach a little guy to come to us. The older kids and I will sit in a circle and call the little one to us, one by one. When I say, "Come to Mommy!" and the little guy obeys right away, we all cheer. Then another child will say, "Come to me!", and we all cheer again when the little one obeys. It's fun training, and it pays off. A child that will come right away when called by his family is a safer child. I always cringe when I see a child bolt after being called by his mother in a public place. Inevitably the child laughs, the parents laugh, and then that little one is consequently trained to be disobedient. And run into danger, as the case may be.
I don't want to discourage you, but I do see disobedience rear its ugly head every once in awhile in my older kids, too. Seems sometimes the will to do as they please overtakes their desire to obey. That sounds vaguely familiar, doesn't it?
"For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do." Romans 7:15 (written by Paul, of course. He was, incidentally, an adult when he wrote this. Let's not expect more from our children than we do of ourselves.)
Peace-
Kendra
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I have a little girl who is struggling with her sin a lot lately, not that we ever have a time when we are not. It's just that hers seems to be rather visible and loud and dramatic at the moment. These sins are hard to swallow but easier to battle; it's the hidden sin, the sneaky stuff that really troubles me as a mom. If I fear man more than God, then the outwardly obnoxious sins of my children that embarrass me in front of other people chafe at me far more than the sins my children keep neatly tucked away, out of human sight. But if I am fearing God more than man, I will hate it all and think as God thinks.
In God's ecomony, sin is sin. There are no levels or degrees of severity. All of our sin, ALL of it, is putrid and filthy. And there is nothing we can do about it. There is not a prayer we can say, an amount we can pay, an act of any sort that will wipe away our guilt before God.
But there is the Gospel. The good news. There is Christ. Our Mediator. Our righteousness. Our Saviour. The Good News is not just that He came to earth, died on the cross, was buried and rose again. The good news is that He stands in our place before the judgment seat of God, on our behalf, and clothes us with His righteousness that we might be saved. It is His work, not ours.
I sat on the couch with my little girl tonight and told her the story all over again. We marvelled together at the amazing truth that we, she and I, are completely unworthy and undeserving of God's grace and mercy. As in Ezekiel, we were just dry old bones unable to pick ourselves up and dance without the breath of God blown through us. And I took her to the Gospel. The good news that Christ put on all our sin and filthiness and gave us His perfect cleanliness, his spotless cloak, as it were, so that we will one day stand before God as righteous, perfect people.
The Gospel produces fruit. The Gospel causes us to love Christ more. Jesus said, "If you love Me, you will keep My commands". Out of our love for Christ, we desire to obey Him better. We, and our children.
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Have you read The Priest With Dirty Clothes? It's a parable of the Gospel, and it speaks volumes to little ones just beginning to understand the good news. One Wintry Night tells the story of redemption and the Gospel from creation to resurrection.
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What am I to do with baby once she is past the holding in the sling stage? What do you do with Mighty Joe (Praise the Lord he is well) when Christian has playpen time?
Also, you have a school room as do we. Do you spend a lot of time there?
-Vicki
Mighty Joe sleeps most of the morning. He is up from about 8:30 till about 10:30, and in that time he is either being held by someone, in his little swing, or in his car seat watching the rest of us. Then he sleeps until 12:30 or so. That helps tremendously.
Once he is more wakeful, he'll be with us in confined ways- either in the front pack or backpack (I have an Ergo, which serves as both), in the doorway jumper, or in the playpen when Christian isn't there. It's just a matter of juggling both little guys. Someone (usually a sister) tends to want to take them for stroller rides or otherwise entertain them, as well.
Our schoolroom usage has varied from season to season. Some years we've done almost everything in the schoolroom, while other years the schoolroom serves more as a storage space for everything and a workspace for kiddos who want to use it. We are fairly mobile this year, but I find that if I park myself in the schoolroom, I can help more kids at once.
Did you wait to introduce formal math to your older kids until they were in about 3rd-4th grade?
-Jennifer
I think the answer depends upon what you consider to be "formal math". Math facts such as addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division, measuring, and money? Then no, we don't wait. Abstract concepts? Yes, we definitely wait. We agree (particularly as we've watched all of them develop academically) with the Bluedorns.
Up to what age have you used a playpen, Kendra?
I’ve never used one at this age, but think maybe I should. At least to get us thru part of the morning.
Any advice?
-Dawn
38. Some days when my husband gets home, I'm in the playpen and everyone else is running around. I might be sucking my thumb, depending on how bad the day has been. :D
I don't really know the answer to this question. My guess would be 3? 4? It probably has depended largely on the child. I have a son who was so mellow he sat at the table coloring happily for 45 minutes when he was two. I have a daughter who should have been in the playpen until she was six.
My 2nd little boy, now 20 months old, can get very fussy. When he’s fussing because he’s not getting his way, we do the, “Oh, fussy babies have to go sit in their bed.” Then, we put him in his bed and come back to get him telling him he needs to be happy. Do you think that is the right way to handle it or do you have another magic method?
-Amy
Yes, that's a good plan. You're communicating the standard and expectations. No, I have no magic methods. Bummer.
My question is - IN THE AFTERNOON - when the little ones need naps (and sometimes mom does too!) what do the older kids do?
-Christina
Kathleen answered this one nicely:
I’ve purchased lots of books on CD– The Chronicles of Narnia, j park (Jonathan Park), Radio Theatre, etc. and the big kids get quiet time where they each go to a room alone and “listen, play and read” with their CD player, stack of books, and tub of Legos or projects. They are refreshed by the alone time (which we all need when there are so many of us) and the little ones can sleep. After about 2 hrs. I get everyone up and we finish the day…
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After the Fall Circle Time post I received several inquiries as to how to keep the under-three crowd busy for all that time:
"I like the idea of doing most subjects during Circle Time, but what do the little ones do during the 2 hours?" -Christy
"...the challenge was how to manage my 4 and 1-year-olds. We don’t have TV, not that I’d stick them in front of endless videos anyway, but I’m just at a loss as how to occupy them, still be present for them, etc. I’d like to include them, but its distracting to the older children." -Kelly
"I have introduced many of your ideas for our circle time, the only problem is that the attention span of my 2 year old boy is not long enough for my agenda!
I have given him paper to practice cutting with scissors and paper to color on, but he still tires of sitting at the table for more than about 15 minutes.
Should I just reduce my expectations for circle time until he is a little older?" -Jennifer
You all think I have this completely figured out, don't you? Excuse me while I go laugh for a sec. :) Oh, but that's right- I write a blog on this subject, with the intent to give you some hope and strategies and ideas for this very situation. So, here we go...
We started our official school year on Monday. I'm not sure what in the world I was thinking, but somewhere in my head I thought that our 18-month-old would be content for at least an hour at the table during Circle Time. About 5 minutes into it, the thought, "Um, Kendra? How long have you been parenting that it didn't dawn on you that Christian would not be happy for all that time at the kitchen table???" arose. Duh.
Compounding the problem was the fact that I wasn't planning to have all of our Circle Time at the kitchen table, but was going to move upstairs to the schoolroom. We don't own a high chair; instead the little guys sit in a chair that attaches to the table. But it doesn't attach to the schoolroom tables. Duh number two.
After three days of tweaking, scribbling down battle plans, and implementing new ideas, here's what I've come up with:
During the first half hour, Christian can sit at the kitchen table with us. We've just finished breakfast and he can be kept busy playing with a bowl and some kitchen tools. He won't be silent. I repeat, he won't be silent. Peace with preschoolers does not equal a quiet house, and Christian will make noise, try to frantically sign "please" 53 times during the course of Circle Time- hoping we'll let him out of his chair- grumble, whine, and even cry. He's a preschooler! But we forge ahead merrily, reminding him gently and sometimes sternly to wait, play with his toys, and stop fussing. The key to training a little guy to sit happily is to communicate that this is what is required of him. In other words, if we were to heed every complaint and give into every demand, we would effectively be training him that by complaining and demanding, he will get what he wants.
During the second half hour, he goes into the playpen and watches a short video in another room, so the video doesn't distract everyone else. Currently he's viewing Signing Time.
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Playpen Time
Now, the solution to the third half hour came to us today in a moment of God-given inspiration and grace. Our schoolroom is connected to our laundry room, which has doors on either end. We shut the door between the laundry room and the hallway and errected a safety gate between the laundry room and the schoolroom. Voila! The perfect little playroom where he can enjoy our presence but stay contained and happily wander around doing what 18-month-olds do. Today it was yelling at the Wedgets when they wouldn't stack for him and playing with a box of clothespins. During the last half hour of Circle Time, big brother takes Christian with him while he gets a morning break from his own studies. He's 15 and only joins us for the beginning of Circle Time, but 90 minutes later he's ready for a break himself. He's been taking Christian outside for walks and has been thinking up other things for the two of them to do together as the days go by.And there it is- two happy hours filled for one busy 18-month-old boy. Our solutions might not work for you because we live in different houses with different children. But this I know: God is faithful to give you answers, so if you're wondering how to constructively fill up those hours for your littlest ones, ask for wisdom and He shall give it freely. He promises so.
Hi Kendra-
We recently started attending a new church here in Singapore. We are the ONLY parents who bring our toddler (19-months) into the service. Generally speaking, he’s pretty good during the service, but I feel like we have to be extra considerate and quiet since we are the only ones. Do you have any good in-the-pew ideas for toddlers?? And, some at-home-training activities, too? We currently do quiet-play (chair time) for 1/2 an hour each day, and lots and lots of read-aloud time (at least two or three 20-minute sessions daily) during which Caleb has to sit still.
Since our 2nd baby* is due in about 12 weeks, I feel like now is the time to really focus on Caleb’s training in this area Thanks!
–Rebecca
*Rebecca just gave birth to Annabelle Victoria on 8/27
Hi friend!
Congrats on adding sweet Annabelle to your family!
Sounds to me as if you're on the right track by a) being proactive and purposeful, and b) practicing sitting still at home. If I were in your shoes in a church where children aren't the status quo, I'd probably sit in the back for a while until Caleb is a bit older. Doubtless you'll need to be up once or twice during the service, and by sitting in the back you're more apt to bother fewer people.
You know our church- about 15 kids for every adult, and all of them in the service. Even so, I have been sitting in the back these days because between Christian and Mighty Joe, there's just a lot of moving I have to do.
As for things to do in the pew, I would really recommend that you don't start that now unless you want to be dealing with crayons dropping, pages tearing, etc. down the road. Quiet books are nice, but depending on the child they can be a short term solution. And once we tried Cheerios and were so sorry we started that! Ugh. The crying that ensued once the Cheerios were gone...
Keep looking at the big picture! Sooner than you know Caleb will be taking sermon notes and you'll be so blessed to have him worshiping alongside of you.
Peace,
Kendra
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